How Semester at Sea Improves Student Outcomes and Boosts Institutional Success:

Changing Higher Ed podcast 243 with host Dr.s Drumm McNaughton and guest Scott Marshall

Transcript: Changing Higher Ed Podcast #243

Transcript 243 – with Drumm McNaughton and Scott Marshall

Introduction to Changing Higher Ed®

David: Welcome to Changing Higher Ed®, a podcast dedicated to helping higher education leaders improve their institutions. With your host, Dr. Drumm McNaughton, CEO of The Change Leader, a consultancy that helps higher ed leaders holistically transform their institutions. Learn more at changinghighered.com. And now, here’s your host, Drumm McNaughton.

[00:00:20] Introduction and Guest Welcome

Drumm McNaughton: Thank you, David.

[00:00:21] Overview of Semester at Sea

Drumm McNaughton: My guest today is Scott Marshall, President and CEO of the Institute for Shipboard Education, a 61 year old nonprofit that directs Semester at Sea, the world’s leading comparative study abroad program. For those of you who are not familiar with Semester at Sea, it’s a program supported by 180 colleges and universities in America and across the globe, where up to 550 students from freshmen to seniors, and those on gap years, spend a semester of their undergraduate program at sea visiting eight to ten countries during a semester while taking 12 to 18 credit hours of courses.

This is something that’s supported by many of the top institutions in the U. S., including Colorado State, University of San Diego, USC, and many others. And Scott joins me today to talk about the program, the benefits to its participants, and the advantages to the university support the program. Scott, welcome to the program.

Scott Marshall: Hey, it’s so good to be here, Drumm. Thank you for having me.

Drumm McNaughton: My pleasure. I am excited to talk about our topic, Semester at Sea. This is something near and dear to my heart. Not that I did that, but I had two cruises while I was at the Naval Academy. One was going from Norfolk up to Nova Scotia and that was, that was fun. The other was even more fun going from Norfolk down to Brazil. We had two stops down there and we were working as part of ships company, et cetera, learning what it’s like for seaborne, sea life. So what you’re doing with Semester at Sea, I wanted to find out more about it.

Scott Marshall: You know what, I can talk to anybody about Semester at Sea for as long as they’re willing to listen and I believe fully in what we do. I think it changes people’s lives in profound ways. So I’m just thrilled to be here with you. Ready to answer any questions you might have and talk show about Semester at Sea.

Drumm McNaughton: That sounds great.

[00:02:24] Scott Marshall’s Background

Drumm McNaughton: Before we dig into that, if you wouldn’t mind, give the audience a little bit of your background so they get to know who you are as a person.

Scott Marshall: Yeah, for sure. I like, many of your guests, spent a significant portion of my career in higher education. I got my PhD in international business, became an assistant associate full professor, did the publishing and the teaching and the service, moved into administrative positions. All the while with a strong commitment to international. The roots of that international, actually I’ll go all the way back to my own undergraduate experience where I was very fortunate to go on a study abroad program in Japan my junior year. Everything since then has had some kind of international focus. So when I became a professor, I started to lead students on study abroad programs.

I started direct a master of international management program. Just very passionate about connecting young adults to the world in some way. And Then, sometime in 2016, something came across the list, sir, asking for faculty members to teach entrepreneurship on this thing called Semester at Sea.

So although I’d spent a lot of time in higher ed and studied abroad myself and led study abroad, I’d never heard of it, and I forwarded to my wife, decided to apply, and lo and behold, on the January of 2017. My wife, two boys, and I are boarding a ship in San Diego, ready to go on this big adventure. About a month into that, I realized that this particular study abroad program, with its comparative experiential model, is truly powerful in what it can do for young adults.

And then about two months into the voyage, I became aware of a vice president position. And I, at the Institute, a small nonprofit that runs the program. And six months later, I’m leaving my tenured full professor position, and joining this small nonprofit headquartered out of Northern Colorado. My family’s moving.

And ever since I’ve been here at the Institute, about seven and a half years in January, 2020, I became the president. And we can talk about that at some point, if you want. What it looked like to cancel a voyage, about two thirds of the way through and what that pandemic did. But, it’s, I just feel really fortunate to, to be here with this organization that, that has such an important mission.

Drumm McNaughton: Well, that, that is a really neat background. Thank you for sharing. And as you were saying, you know, you’d spent a lot of time in Japan. I was thinking, should I say good morning or ohayōgozaimasu?

Scott Marshall: Yes. Yeah. Good for you.

Drumm McNaughton: So, Japan was one of the favorite countries that I got a chance to visit while I was in the Navy. Just an incredible place. The people are so friendly. It’s just really nice.

[00:05:18] Semester at Sea Program Details

Drumm McNaughton: So, tell us, what is Semester at Sea?

Scott Marshall: let’s start with the high level. It’s a semester based program is ship based that takes college students to 10 countries over that 105 days. Meanwhile, they’re taking 12 to 15 college credits that are offered in partnership with Colorado State University. They spend about half the time on the ship and about half the time in country, 5 to 6 days in every country.

The most powerful part of this experience is a community that forms on that ship. We attract college students from 150 to 180 universities Every semester,

Drumm McNaughton: Wow.

Scott Marshall: and we have faculty, 25 to 20 faculty, most of them are from universities around the U. S. and some international, and within a fairly short period of time, these strangers become friends, and those friends form a community.

And they learn together about the world in a way that no other community can. So, that is my brief pitch on what Semester at Sea is. There’s a lot of details that have yet to be revealed, but that is the essence of what this program is.

Drumm McNaughton: How many students are on each course? Is there just one ship or are there multiple ships?

Scott Marshall: Ah, gosh, we can only one run, run one ship, one program at a time, yeah. So, 450 to 550 students per voyage. And we run two voyages. So on this current voyage, there’s about 450 students. On the next voyage in spring, there’ll be about 540 students.

Drumm McNaughton: Wow. Okay. So do you take over the entire ship?

Scott Marshall: You bet.

Drumm McNaughton: You, you do. Okay.

Scott Marshall: It is only us.

Drumm McNaughton: so it’s like a, you, you have your own dedicated cruise liner.

Scott Marshall: It is our home campus. That is our campus.

Drumm McNaughton: Okay.

Scott Marshall: It’s a small ship. It’s a relatively small ship. Right. It’s not one of these massive cruise ships pulling to Fort Lauderdale, that it’s a city on water. This ship, we can only hold up to 600 passengers and a total of about 887 humans. So that’s a relatively small ship in today’s standards.

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, absolutely. It kind of reminds me like when we were talking, getting ready for this. My father and my uncle went to Massachusetts Maritime Academy and my uncle was actually he stayed on and became one of the faculty also was the captain of the ship. for many years. Now, this is very different than that.

You know, right there, the students at Mass Maritime and the other Maritime Academy, they’re working as part of the crew and learning the different functions. This is different.

[00:08:16] Student Experience and Activities

Drumm McNaughton: You have your own separate crew, and they’re there as an international team. A student going through an international program, but the exposure is very different because you’ve got study and then you’re pulling into ports.

I would assume there’s activities that go on in these ports.

Scott Marshall: Yeah. So the first thing I want to clarify to the first part of what you said is the students are not crew for sure. There are very small programs where they’re on tall ships and the students are. Are actually managing the sailing vessel here. The students are students, and we hire a company that hires the crew, and they all run this ship.

And yes, so I’ll give you a short picture of what happens for these students that they get on the ship. In five days, they get oriented. They do add drop classes. They start their coursework. And after about five to six days, they’ll approach their first port and for the fall voyage, that could be somewhere in Europe, Spain or France for the spring voyage, that’s Vietnam or Malaysia.

And there’s really three, three things they can do in that country. Number one is. As a faculty member, you teach three courses, and each of those courses has a one day field class in one of the countries. And if you’re a student in one of those classes, then you’re required to go on that one day field class.

So, over the course of a voyage, you’re going to have three field classes, so you’re spending those days in those countries with your faculty member. learning about that country. The second thing is we actually curate field programs within country partners. So these can be homestays, university visits, tourist like trips to safari in Kenya, or going up to see the Taj Mahal in India.

So those are the field programs. We package and sell. In addition, To the standard cost to our voyagers and then when they are not doing a field program or field class They actually can independently travel they can organize with their peers trips. That they want to, take on themselves.

Drumm McNaughton: Well, I can, I can see the benefit for students in, in many ways. You know, you get this international experience as, and how many, Undergrads in the U S and other places have got this international experience to start with so early.

[00:10:49] Academic Offerings and Faculty

Drumm McNaughton: So if you have a major, like a international business or something along those lines, you’re actually going out and you’re experiencing other countries other than the U S but what, what about, you know, a traditional liberal arts education or, or STEM or something like that, because you’re offering A whole catalog of courses on, on these, on these cruises.

I call it a cruise, but

Scott Marshall: Yeah, we’re gonna we’re gonna start and with the terminology here. It’s a voyage. Yeah

Drumm McNaughton: Aye, aye captain,

Scott Marshall: We are definitely not a cruise we are a voyage, so yeah, we offer around 70 Courses every voyage and they’re 100, 200, 300, 400 level courses. So we have, gap year students taking 12 credits, nine to 12 credits.

At a 100 level, we have sophomores, juniors, seniors. We have some major courses. So there’s quite, that whole range of offering, students, depending on where they’re at in their degree. Maybe taking some gen ed courses to fulfill those requirements, and in some cases they’ll be able to take, a 304 level psych course or business course.

STEM is a little harder for us. We don’t have any labs on the ship. So if you’re in some of the natural sciences that require a lab, we, we can’t offer those.

Drumm McNaughton: well, you, you can’t have them just catch fish off the, off the stern and dissect that.

Scott Marshall: Someday. That’s our future drum. Yeah, that’s our future doing plankton poles and microscopic analysis of microplastics. Yeah,

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, there you go.

Scott Marshall: That’s coming. For sure. And so you have that whole diversity of offerings to attract a broad range of students. I think that answers your question,

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, oh, for sure. You know, when, when we spoke before you said 72 course section, 60 unique per voyage, major related liberal arts, humanity courses. It’s, it sounds just like an incredible experience for these students and the faculty who are, are on board,

Scott Marshall: yeah.

[00:13:01] Impact and Benefits of Study Abroad

Scott Marshall: Well, maybe we could just go to what we know about high impact practices, right? A, C, and U impact practices. We know global learning is a high impact practice. We also know learning communities are a high impact practice. And guess what? Every student on this voyage is part of a learning community together because they all take the same singular required course called global studies.

And that is the stream of. Or the continuity of learning that the entire community embraces. So you’ve got obviously global learning. You’ve got learning community for sure. And then you’ve got common intellectual experiences. That’s a broad term that the AACNU uses for high impact practice.

So just this iterative exposure to different countries. Right? And the testing and retesting of mental models is actually a common intellectual experience. You’re all going through this sort of tumult in your brain about what it means to test and retest your mental models of what the world is or should be or can be. And that truly is a common intellectual experience. It’s causing the synaptics, synapses To fire and fail to fire and together, you’re really understanding this overall experience together. So first of all, I just want to frame it in terms of these high impact practices. And then, I can go to the alumni that I talked to frequently.

I just talked to one yesterday. He’s 62 years old, sailed 1972. And to this day, he says that experience fundamentally changed his life, what he would do, how he would do it. And I’ve had these interactions with alumni repeatedly. Now, obviously, Semester at Sea is not the only thing that can have that kind of impact.

I think almost any study abroad could have that impact. Clearly, an amazing faculty member on a standard campus who inspires someone to interpret a particular discipline can have that impact. But our rate of transformation is so hot. Our alumni from 30, 40, 50 years ago, still speak of this as one of the most profound experiences in their life.

[00:15:22] Cost and Financial Aid

Drumm McNaughton: What’s the, what’s the price tag for this? I’m curious.

Scott Marshall: Yeah, it’s, what I would call a mid range semester in terms of cost depends on where you go. We know that an in state student at a state school, room and board can be, less than 20, 000. But if someone’s going to a private. They could be paying 70, 000, 80, 000 with room and board on it. So really we fall in the middle there.

We have a, we have our market facing price, which is tuition room and board at 36, 000 or 33, 000, depending on what cabin you get. So there’s an outside cabin with sunlight for 36. There’s an inside cabin for 33. Now our effective price. Ends up being about 24, 000 because we provide a lot of support. We have a lot of financial aid and scholarships available.

About 50 percent of our students receive financial aid. So, it’s not a cheap program, but it’s also, I know people who sent their kids and said that was their cheapest semester. So depends on where you’re going, whether this, where this falls in your range.

Drumm McNaughton: So for the, and you’ve got your partnership with Colorado State. Okay. For a student to participate in this, do the student, does the student have to transfer to Colorado State? How does that work?

Scott Marshall: Yeah, they’re effectively visiting students. It’s not really a transfer, right? So let’s say someone, we have a great partner in University of San Diego, and they’ve been sending students for a long time. They don’t withdraw from USD while they’re on Semester at Sea. They just, are away as a visiting student at CSU, effectively.

Once they’re done with their semester at C, they get a CSU transcript, the Colorado State University transcript, fully loads into their USD system so they can continue their degree.

Drumm McNaughton: Sure. Yeah. I was, I was, I just an aside, I was a mentor at the USD school of business

Scott Marshall: Oh, wow.

Drumm McNaughton: and just really enjoyed my time there. Some great stuff, beautiful campus. In fact, I think, I think it was ranked the number one campus for beauty in the country.

Scott Marshall: Doesn’t surprise me.

Drumm McNaughton: No, it doesn’t.

[00:17:47] University Partnerships and Benefits

Drumm McNaughton: So what is it you’re talking to a president What is it that is a benefit for them and their students to participate in your program?

Scott Marshall: Yeah, Drumm, if I could again start a bit back from just talking about Semester at Sea, and I’ll get to Semester at Sea in a minute, but where the research is showing the importance of study abroad. You’ve seen the data, I’m sure. Consortium for the Analysis of Student Success in International Education — referred to as CASSIE has done this research, very rigorous research looking at study abroad students and non-study abroad students and the impact on graduation, the pace at which And the evidence is pretty much irrefutable because this research really is very well done.

Study abroad students compared to non-study abroad students. They graduate faster, more often, with more credits, with a higher GPA.

Drumm McNaughton: Well,

Scott Marshall: those together. Again.

Drumm McNaughton: the trifecta.

Scott Marshall: yeah. Faster, with more credits, with more often with a higher GPA. Now what president of any university doesn’t want their students doing those things?

Drumm McNaughton: Absolutely. You know, so there’s tremendous benefits for the students. And if the president is thinking about this. For their particular students. Great. What’s the benefit to the actual university, though, besides better student outcomes

Scott Marshall: Yes. So it’s going to depend on the university’s total enrollment, tuition and discount rate, current retention rate. Current graduation rate, and they would have to use those numbers to input the CASSIE numbers, right? So, the university has 20, 000 students, their effective graduation rate in 60 years, or six years is maybe 60%, and, their study abroad rate currently is 10%, so they use all those data, and then they take this CASSIE information and say, listen, if we invest in study abroad, we have the potential. To increase retention rates, increase graduation rates, speed up their graduation, which is a budget reduction. They’ll have higher GPAs and they’ll actually take more credit hours on average. These are averages. So you put that together and you’re like, this is actually something we need to be investing in because the returns there as a business model.

Drumm McNaughton: and the students when they graduate, they are better prepared for a global marketplace. So to be able to find a job more quickly. That’s more relevant to their major, etc, etc. These are all good things too.

Scott Marshall: No question. If I could just build on that for a minute, if you don’t mind. So, so the app presidents need to be investing in study abroad because it’s going to make sense for them. For the students, it’s going to make sense for their bottom line. It just makes sense. The logic is all there. But to build on that even further, the students, we got to build study broad programs that are not so Euro focused.

Right? Over 70 percent of U. S. study abroad goes to Europe. And I love Europe. I got nothing against Europe. But three of the five top economies of the world are not in Europe. They’re in Asia.

Drumm McNaughton: Really?

Scott Marshall: Sure.

Drumm McNaughton: You’re kidding. I didn’t know that.

Scott Marshall: Japan. You knew it. Japan, China, India. Why are we all going there? One of those five is actually us. And the other one’s Germany. So of the top five, there’s only one that’s in Europe. And three that are in Asia. So why are we sending all our kids to Europe When the world is really leaning Pacific is leaving Asia, and even more so now with emerging economies in Africa on the African continent. So I really encourage them to serve their students and serve the university to get people out.

And to your point about employment, there’s no doubt communication skills, intercultural skills, global awareness. Those all are essential in today’s world. So it’s not just. Going and seeing Europe, it’s seeing the world and understanding the world and be able to interface with the world. Now you asked me about Semester at Sea.

Why would I advocate for Semester at Sea? Right? So again, study abroad. Great. Just go. Even if it’s in Tuscany, lovely place, maybe not the most profound learning experience, but a great place.

Drumm McNaughton: Depends on what your major is.

Scott Marshall: Sure. Yeah. If you’re looking at fashion or wine, go to Tuscany. If you’re looking to go into business, otherwise.

Look at something like Semester at Sea because it’s very unlikely that any student throughout the professional career is going to be focused on any one region or even exist within one industry. They need to understand the world. They need to be able to compare and contrast and act within multiple cultures. is the world today. And we know how connected we are by technology and by transportation, but fundamentally it still happens human to human. At the core of it, it happens human to human, and that won’t change. Even with Artifice Intelligence, that won’t change. It’s human to human at the core, and you’ll be interacting with people from all over the world.

In your career and Semester at Sea builds that skill set by taking you into a country for five days Bring you back on the ship to reflect with the community Next port you go into there you learn You’re challenged you grow you come back in the community you reflect again repeatedly by the end of that the vast majority of those students are going to be Truly profoundly changed in how they think and approach the world.

Drumm McNaughton: It’s truly an experiential model. So you’ve got between 150 and 180 Universities participating each semester. How do you find your faculty?

Scott Marshall: So, we have a employment website Just like

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, just that simple, huh?

Scott Marshall: yeah but Does not be so crass. Really what happens right? We have to go search for certain disciplines. That’s really important because we’re always going to teach our oceanography course. We’re always going to teach our psychology courses.

We’re always going to teach our business courses, sociology, political science. So we know the types of disciplines we need to attract to the void. And so we are proactively out there reaching out to our partner universities and other universities to invite faculty to apply. Most often those faculty coming while they’re on sabbatical, some come, post retirement, and some are able to take a leave.

So there’s a variety of ways faculty can come, but, we are really, We are proactive in finding the right kind of faculty for this voyage. They have to be faculty who love to teach. Now remember, I was in higher ed for 20 years, and, I can say there’s faculty who love to teach and faculty who maybe don’t love it as much.

Drumm McNaughton: They’re

Scott Marshall: could be

Drumm McNaughton: on research.

Scott Marshall: really focused on their research. And so we are a teaching program, a teaching learning program. And so we really focus on that. And we’re community based. Here’s something a faculty member has to be aware of. They go to breakfast before they go teach. There’s only two dining rooms and you could be sitting down with your students for breakfast before you go to class.

What’s

Drumm McNaughton: Nothing wrong with that.

Scott Marshall: I think it’s brilliant. I love it because you get to know your faculty so much better as humans as. As mothers or fathers, as, citizens of the world, you just get to know them better and that enhances the opportunity to learn within the classroom and outside the classroom.

Drumm McNaughton: When I stop and think of my undergraduate experience, you know, obviously Naval Academy is a little bit different than most schools. But when I think back there, There’s a number of things that stand out, but one of the biggest ones is Hair doctor professor Kalam. He I had him for two physics courses. He was German With the German accent he did his he did his doctoral work and he taught for many years at Harvard So he had a Bostonian accent overlaid on to The, the German accent, he, the, one of the most brilliant, if not the most brilliant person I’ve ever met.

I took two semesters with him, was up quantum physics and things like that. Yeah. You know, he, I saw him look at his notes one time, just one time in those two semesters, you know, That’s who I remember and the experience that you’re giving students, they get to meet their faculty member in a very different light.

It’s not just in a classroom. It is in a classroom, quasi social. You get, as you said, you get to know the person as a person, not just as a faculty member.

Scott Marshall: that’s right. We often times call it a living learning community.

Drumm McNaughton: Mm hmm.

Scott Marshall: And so you have that community on the ship. Again, they’re spinning. Over 50 days on that ship together, they’re living through some great traditions we have. They’re going to classes, they’re in the dining rooms or listen to evening seminars together.

They’re joining in the student organizations and then they’re going in country together. Remember, every faculty member is leading these field classes together

Drumm McNaughton: Mm hmm.

Scott Marshall: with their students. And then maybe they’ll meet other students or the students will meet other faculty because they decided to go on this field program together.

And so it’s just this phenomenal dynamic living learning community over that 105 days.

Drumm McNaughton: So I, I have to ask this question. In the Navy, we had different traditions, you know, crossing the Arctic Circle, crossing the equator, and I went through the one crossing the equator.

Scott Marshall: We have it on our ship!

Drumm McNaughton: Oh my gosh, you’re kidding me.

Scott Marshall: Drum tell everybody what that’s called.

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, I don’t, honestly, I, I remember you were Pollywogs when you first started, but I don’t, Shellback, that’s what it was, the Shellback initiation.

Scott Marshall: And what do we call that day? Neptune Day!

Drumm McNaughton: Neptune day. Oh my gosh.

Scott Marshall: God Neptune is going to bless you as a shellback because you’ve crossed the equator.

Drumm McNaughton: This is it. Oh my gosh. Well, it’s I, I know the shellback initiation has changed significantly than when I went through it because there were no women involved. Now, now there are and men can be way stupider than, than they are. So, but be that as it is may. What other takeaways, what other things really jumped to mind that present university presidents and boards need to know about your program?

Scott Marshall: yeah. So we are what’s called, for the university presidents out there and the members of their boards, we are what’s called a third party provider, right? So in very practice, when you’re looking at your budget, you’re saying, why would we partner with someone who’s going to take that semester worth of tuition?

I get it. I’ve been in higher ed, I’ve had budgets, I know the challenges that exist in that side, and I just want to refer you back to the CASSIE data and say, yes, you’ll lose that semester worth of tuition. However, on the other side, you’re going to retain students who graduate faster with more credit hours with higher GPAs and ultimately more employable and likely a long term more successful and likely to get back money.

So you got to make these decisions that are at the best for you that may be non intuitive. But if you switch your thinking, you’ll actually end up with a more robust budget model that’s invested in study abroad, that’s been willing to work with third party providers and leads to higher success for your students in the short term and long term.

But I’d also just say, student choice is key. I’ve just talked to too many people within the system who believe they know best and don’t allow student choice. And students want choice. Students want some agency. And they’re actually choosing to not stay at an institution, right?

Transfer rates after the first year. What are they? 30, 30%?

Drumm McNaughton: Yeah. Or

Scott Marshall: Something like that. So they’re choosing not to stay. How do you get them to stay? Give them the opportunity, gives them some choice.

Drumm McNaughton: So, one last question because this, this intrigues me. You’ve talked about Colorado State. You’ve talked about University of San Diego. Who are some of your other partners?

Scott Marshall: Yeah, it’s really quite diverse. University of Alabama is a great partner.

Drumm McNaughton: Really?

Scott Marshall: Yeah. And so is Elon University. So here’s a small private out of North Carolina. Here’s the major state institution out of Alabama. The Ohio State’s a great partner. Arizona State’s a great partner. San Diego State. Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, University of San Diego.

They’re all over the country. UNC Chapel Hill, University of South Carolina. So you’ve got this great diversity of institutions that bring their students on the ship. It’s quite brilliant. Yeah. So we have over

Drumm McNaughton: And that brings me to another thought along these lines is what opportunities do students have to interact with students from other universities. They’re all in this confined environment at sea. They make these connections. This certainly helps them through their, their lifetime with. A, a built in network.

Scott Marshall: 70, 000 alums because our program has been going for 61 years.

Drumm McNaughton: Wow.

Scott Marshall: And to your point. You get on the ship, you’re going to be assigned a roommate, you don’t get to choose. Unless you’re coming with your best friend and you really want to be with that best friend. And that student that you’re going to be in a cabin with could be from the other side of the country or perhaps the other side of the world.

So you immediately have a connection nationally or internationally, and then you’re going to be assigned to what we call a C. So a C is like a residence hall, but it’s on a ship and there’s 70 to 85, 90 students in every seat and those C’s are represented from. I have representation from across these universities and those C’s are going to compete in the C olympics, they’re going to do different activities together, and so you’re going to have all that mixing opportunity.

And then, of course, you’re going to be in classes and those classes are going to be. Diversely represented, the field programs, a few classes. So you will know over the course of the voyage who comes from your same institution, but you will get to know people very well from across the campus. Across this living, learning community.

It is, it’s phenomenal.

Drumm McNaughton: This, this sounds, I can’t believe the time has gone by so quickly on our conversation cause I’ve got so many other questions to ask. They’ll have to wait for another time.

Scott Marshall: Okay, well, you know what, Drumm, you’re a brilliant host. I’d love to come back anytime you want.

Drumm McNaughton: I’d like that as well. Two takeaway questions for you. Three takeaways for university presidents and boards. You’ve already touched on some of this already which was why they should participate in something like this. So, the first is upping their retention rates, et cetera, et cetera. What’s going to be the second one?

Scott Marshall: so let me reframe that one for you a little bit and just say, consider study abroad offices a revenue supporter and not a cost center; rethink how you think about a study abroad office.

Second of all, invest otherwise in study abroad by incenting students, could be on a progressive scale based on estimated financial, family contribution, but provide the resources because it will pay off in the end.

And third, which I have touched on, talk to your study abroad officers. Get them to move beyond Europe and beyond immersive. Get them to start to build robust programming outside of Europe and comparative programs. Because those, that’s the world today. The world is not Europe, and the world is not singular immersive in one country.

And we’re trying to equip these young adults for successful life, right? That’s our goal. Well, guess what? Europe is important but look at the world now.

Drumm McNaughton: I’m going to add one more, which I generally don’t do, is get your faculty involved with this as well, because the faculty—yes, the students come back, but they’re going to graduate at some point in time— but your faculty can leverage these experiences, bring them into the classroom, and it helps your students.

Scott Marshall: You bet. 100%. Thank you for adding that.

Drumm McNaughton: My pleasure.

[00:36:11] Future of Semester at Sea

Drumm McNaughton: What’s next for you? What’s next for study at sea or semester at sea?

Scott Marshall: Semester at Sea, gosh, this voyage is finishing up in four days. We launched the spring semester on January 5th, getting students on. In my role, I’m focused on revenue generation for this very small nonprofit organization that is building new university relationships and raising money philanthropically from our alumni and donor community.

That’s where I spent, in some ways, very similar to a university president. We got to focus on revenue generation. And then, I really try to inspire and incent innovation. So one of the more exciting things we’re working on right now is to create an artificial intelligence floating lab.

How do we get, how do we partner with a corporate like Nvidia to get one of their servers on the ship and get curriculum on the ship as a non credit certificate? That wraps around the credit based work, so a cohort of students can get AI literacy while doing this experience. That kind of innovation is what the world needs today, and I think it equips students even better.

And so I love to, push organizations towards these kind of innovation frontiers.

Drumm McNaughton: Scott, thank you so much. I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. I wish you guys all the best of luck. And who knows, maybe when I retire at some point, I’ll apply to be a faculty member.

Scott Marshall: Perfect! Love to have you.

Drumm McNaughton: Thank you, sir. Take care.

Scott Marshall: Alright, thanks, John.

[00:37:42] Conclusion and Farewell

Drumm McNaughton: Thanks for listening today and a special thank you to my guest Scott Marshall, President and CEO of the Institute for Shipboard Education.

Scott, thanks for being on the program. This brought back a lot of memories from my undergraduate and I look forward to the next time we get a chance to talk and have you on the program. Folks, thanks again for listening. See you next week.