April 28, 2026 · Episode 309
Take the University to the World: A New International Enrollment Strategy for Regional and Private Colleges
34 Min · By Dr. Drumm McNaughton
International enrollment is shifting unevenly. See how higher education must adapt with global delivery, advocacy, and new recruitment strategy.
International student enrollment in the United States hit record numbers in 2024-2025, then dropped sharply heading into 2025-2026, with effects that will compound through 2026-2027. The headline number conceals what matters most for institutional strategy: the decline is bifurcated. UC Berkeley enrolled more international students this past fall than at any point in its history. Regional privates and tier-two publics are losing them. The same conditions producing record numbers at top-tier brands are accelerating losses at the institutions that have spent the last decade quietly subsidizing operating budgets with international tuition.
The stakes extend well beyond a single line in the budget. International students generated more than 55,000 jobs in California between 2022 and 2023. Roughly half of the founders behind Silicon Valley first arrived on a student visa. Travel restrictions now affect approximately 75 countries, including Nigeria, the tenth-largest source country for U.S.-bound international students. When the pipeline contracts unevenly, what contracts is not just tuition revenue but a given institution’s share of future innovation, research output, and global alumni network.
This analysis draws on the perspective of returning guest, Dr. Shaun Carver, executive director of UC Berkeley’s International House (iHouse) His current iHouse community houses approximately 600 residents from 80 nationalities and counts 12 Nobel laureates among its alumni. He also serves as president of the iHouse Association, which spans seven Rockefeller International Houses worldwide.
The Bifurcation in International Enrollment Is Structural, Not Cyclical
The enrollment decline is real, but it is not landing the same way at every institution. Top-tier global brands, including Berkeley, MIT, the Ivy League, and their international peers, remain largely insulated. For an admitted student weighing UC Berkeley from Asia, the brand value, alumni network, and trajectory a top-tier acceptance puts a family on are too significant to refuse. As Carver framed it, the area could be on fire and the student would still come.
Tier-two and tier-three institutions face an entirely different calculation, particularly private regionals without state appropriations or substantial endowments to absorb enrollment shocks. An admitted student weighing a tier-two U.S. private against an equivalent program in Australia, Canada, or the United Kingdom is increasingly making that decision on perceived welcome rather than program rank. Comparable academic outcomes, more accessible visa pathways, and a less politically charged environment are tilting decisions away from regional U.S. campuses that previously would have been competitive on academic merits alone.
Many of the most exposed institutions spent the last decade closing operating gaps with international tuition. That worked when the pipeline was reliable. It is structurally fragile when the pipeline is not. Boards reading aggregated national enrollment numbers are seeing a mixed picture. Boards reading their own institution’s enrollment data, particularly at the program level, are seeing something sharper.
Undergraduate Exposure: Where International Enrollment Risk Is Concentrated
The decline is hitting undergraduate populations harder than graduate populations, and the reason matters for recruitment strategy. Undergraduate decisions are typically parental decisions. A 17- or 18-year-old applying from outside the United States is rarely the primary decision-maker. The parent is. Parents halfway around the world are watching the same news coverage U.S. families watch, often through CNN feeds in international hotels, and making rational risk assessments about where to send a teenager.
Graduate students operate differently. They are adults making their own decisions, and they tend to weight program rank, faculty quality, research facilities, and post-graduation employment more heavily than political climate. They are not insulated from the broader environment, but their decision criteria are less exposed to it.
For undergraduate-heavy programs at regional and private institutions, this asymmetry compounds the broader pipeline pressure. Recruitment narratives, family communications, and parent-facing content all need to reflect the actual decision-making unit, not the applicant alone. International recruitment built around aspirational student outcomes will underperform recruitment built around family-confidence signals: campus safety data, host-family programs, alumni-parent testimonials, and clear lines of communication for parents through onboarding and beyond.
The Second System Shock: From Pandemic Disruption to Mobility Constraints
Higher education has historically been a slow sector to innovate. The dominant delivery model, a faculty member in front of a room of students, would be familiar to Socrates. COVID changed that almost overnight. Decisions that previously took years to clear faculty governance were approved over a weekend. Faculty who had insisted online delivery could not replicate the in-person experience were teaching on Zoom within weeks.
The current visa and mobility environment is producing a similar forcing function. Institutions that emerge from it well will be the ones that treat it as an existential reset rather than a cyclical bump. Institutions that wait for the political environment to revert will keep absorbing enrollment losses while their more agile peers reposition academic delivery and rebuild recruitment economics around new realities.
Reversing the Model: Exporting Academic Delivery Instead of Importing Students
For roughly a century, the U.S. higher education business model has rested on bringing the world to American campuses. That assumption is no longer safe. The strategic inverse, taking Wisconsin and Berkeley to the world in Carver’s framing, is gaining traction across institution types.
Harvard partnered with the University of Toronto to deliver portions of its programming in Canada using its own faculty. The United Kingdom has elevated overseas partnerships into something close to national strategy. NYU is the clearest U.S. example among R1 institutions, with global locations including China and Abu Dhabi and additional sites in cities such as Hong Kong and Singapore.
For regional and private institutions without R1 budgets, the operational paths are increasingly viable: partnership-based delivery in which a U.S. institution teaches its credential through a host-country partner; participation in multi-university international teaching centers being assembled by foreign governments; and hybrid models that combine an in-country physical presence with online instruction. The economics still have to pencil out, and these are not inexpensive ventures, but the funding landscape for tier-two and tier-three institutions is materially different from what it was even one administration ago.
Foreign Governments Subsidies: State-Supported Global Hubs Are Reshaping Competitive Access
What is genuinely new in this cycle, and underappreciated by many boards, is that the global delivery pathway is no longer reserved for the wealthiest research universities. Foreign governments that have spent decades watching their best students permanently relocate to the United States are now actively trying to reverse that brain drain.
Education City in Qatar, the rapid expansion of higher education infrastructure in Riyadh, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Singapore, and Delhi all reflect a strategic willingness on the part of host countries to underwrite the cost of bringing international campuses in-house. National strategies are being built around attracting multiple institutions to a single regional hub, which materially changes the funding picture for tier-two and tier-three U.S. schools that previously would have been priced out of global expansion.
There is precedent worth surfacing here. McNaughton recalled a project at King Saud University in which two cohorts of 30 senior participants each held PhDs from U.S. universities. Many of those degrees came from regional U.S. institutions, not from Berkeley or Chicago. Regional universities have served global student populations for decades. The pivot toward in-country delivery is not new ground for them. It is recovered ground, with new infrastructure to operate on.
International Students as a Long-Term Economic and Innovation Input
International enrollment is often framed strictly as a tuition revenue question. That framing is incomplete. International students bring perspective into classrooms that domestic-only enrollment cannot replicate. Discussions of global topics shift in substance and rigor when students from Africa, Central America, Asia, and Europe are in the room together.
Berkeley’s International House illustrates what intentional diversity design can produce. Among 600 residents and roughly 80 nationalities, the largest single national group is approximately 18 percent. Every other community is under 10 percent. There is no dominant culture, which means students cannot operate by default norms and have to engage across difference to function. Twelve Nobel laureates count among the iHouse’s Berkeley alumni; the University of Chicago’s iHouse has produced 25.
Clark Kerr, the legendary University of California chancellor, framed the underlying principle this way: it is not the university’s role to protect students from ideas; it is to create an environment in which students can be exposed to different ideas. That capacity, sitting across the table from someone you disagree with, listening, and responding without resorting to cancellation, is the same capacity employers report struggling to find in younger hires. Universities that articulate this explicitly to families, employers, and policymakers have a stronger workforce-readiness narrative than universities that treat international enrollment as a budget line.
The Advocacy Void and Institutional Responsibility
International students cannot vote. They cannot contribute to political campaigns. They have no natural advocates inside the American political system. That vacuum has to be filled by university leadership, which is uniquely positioned to articulate the contributions these students make.
The talking points are not subtle. Tens of thousands of jobs created. Roughly half of Silicon Valley’s founders arriving first on a student visa. A meaningful share of Nobel laureates affiliated with U.S. universities having entered the country as international students. If presidents, provosts, and trustees do not make this case publicly and repeatedly, no one else will.
Silence in this environment functions as concession. The default narrative becomes one in which international students are a problem to be managed rather than a strategic asset built up over generations of national investment. Institutions waiting for someone else to make the case are effectively betting that external conditions will revert on their own. That is not a defensible strategy.
Three Takeaways for University Presidents and Boards
The following recommendations reflect the perspective of Dr. Shaun Carver, drawn from his quarter-century of leadership in international higher education.
- Maintain institutional neutrality. Resist the pressure to take definitive public positions on global conflicts that fracture international student communities. The role of a university is not to determine which side is right. It is to create the academic environment in which all viewpoints can be aired civilly and examined rigorously. The moment an institution takes a political stance, it alienates a meaningful portion of the global community whose participation it depends on. Mission-driven institutions with explicit values, including faith-based universities, will calibrate this differently, but the general principle holds.
- Advocate publicly and consistently for international students. International students cannot vote and cannot fund campaigns. Their case has to be made by university leadership willing to stand on the record about the economic, scholarly, and cultural contributions these students make. Making that case once is not enough. Making it repeatedly, in policy forums, in the media, and in front of state legislatures, is the work.
- Reposition smaller campuses as safe havens. For tier-two and tier-three institutions, particularly those located in small college towns in the Midwest and similar regions, the recruitment message needs to pivot. A campus with a low crime rate, strong quality of life, and a welcoming local community is a genuine differentiator in the current environment. The brand promise should be explicit: a secure, supportive academic home for students and families looking for a steadier landing pad.
The institutions that come through the next two recruitment cycles in stronger position will be the ones that read their own data honestly and act, rather than waiting for the political environment to revert. The international pipeline that has subsidized American higher education for a generation is being reshaped in real time. The strategic response is to diversify how the institution delivers, advocate visibly for the students it serves, and reposition where families and students still want to be.
Quick Overview
- International student enrollment dropped sharply heading into 2025-2026 after a record 2024-2025 cycle
- The decline is bifurcated: top-tier global brands set records while regional privates and tier-two publics absorb the losses
- Undergraduate recruitment is hit harder than graduate recruitment because parents make the decisions
- Travel restrictions affect approximately 75 countries, including Nigeria, the tenth-largest source country
- International students generated more than 55,000 jobs in California between 2022 and 2023
- Roughly half of Silicon Valley’s founders first arrived in the United States on a student visa
- COVID demonstrated that higher education can move quickly when the cost of inaction is high enough
- The strategic reframe is delivering education abroad through partnerships, branch campuses, and international teaching centers
- Foreign governments are now actively funding international campus hubs in Qatar, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, and India
- Regional U.S. universities have served global student populations for decades and are well-positioned to participate in the pivot
- International students lack natural political advocates and depend on university leaders to make their public case
- Small college towns in the Midwest and similar regions can credibly position as safe havens for international families
- Civil discourse and engagement across difference is a recruitment and workforce-readiness argument, not just a values statement
About Our Guest
With over 20 years of experience in international education and higher learning, Dr. Shaun Carver is the Executive Director and CEO of International House at UC Berkeley, a renowned institution that fosters intercultural respect and understanding among people from around the world. Dr. Carver holds a Doctor of Education in Organizational Change and Leadership from the University of Southern California and an MBA from California State University San Marcos.
As a visionary leader and a passionate advocate for global education, Dr. Carver has led and contributed to various strategic initiatives that have enhanced the academic and professional outcomes of students and faculty across multiple campuses and countries. He has successfully managed complex operations, budgets, and teams while cultivating a culture of innovation, entrepreneurship, and diversity. He has established and maintained strong partnerships with stakeholders, donors, and alumni, advancing the mission and vision of the institutions he has served. “At International House at UC Berkeley, I am honored to be part of a vibrant community that celebrates cultural diversity, shapes future leaders, and opens doors to a world of possibilities.”
About the Host
Dr. Drumm McNaughton is the founder, CEO, and Principal Consultant at The Change Leader, Inc. A highly sought-after higher education consultant with 20+ years of experience, Dr. McNaughton works with leadership, management, and boards of both U.S. and international institutions. His expertise spans key areas, including accreditation, governance, strategic planning, presidential onboarding, mergers, acquisitions, and strategic alliances. Dr. McNaughton’s approach combines a holistic methodology with a deep understanding of the contemporary and evolving challenges facing higher education institutions worldwide to ensure his clients succeed in their mission.
Read the Podcast Transcript →
Transcript: Changing Higher Ed podcast 309
Introduction to Changing Higher Ed®
Welcome to Changing Higher Ed®, a podcast dedicated to helping higher education leaders improve their institutions. With your host, Dr. Drumm McNaughton, CEO of The Change Leader, a consultancy that helps higher ed leaders holistically transform their institutions. Learn more at changinghighered.com. And now, here’s your host, Drumm McNaughton.
[00:00:31] Welcome Back Sean
Drumm McNaughton: Thank you, David. Today I get to welcome back a previous guest, Dr. Sean Carver, who’s the executive director of UC Berkeley’s International House. Sean is a dual citizen of the UK and US, and he previously was the Executive Director of the Hult International Business School where he oversaw 750 students representing 82 countries.
[00:00:54] Why International Student Enrollment Matters
Drumm McNaughton: While international student enrollment in the US hit record numbers for the ’24-’25 school year ’25-’26 enrollment has had a sharp decline. Raising concerns for future enrollments for ’26 and ’27. This is troubling as not only do international students help many institutions shore up their bottom lines. They’re a key part of our economy. Creating over 55,000 jobs in California between ’22 and ’23, and account for up to 50% of founders of companies in Silicon Valley.
Sean joins me today to talk about how higher ed institutions are coping with the new era of restricted international enrollments and its implications to American higher education prominence across the globe.
Sean, welcome back to the program.
Shaun Carver: Thank you, Drumm. It’s good to see you again.
Drumm McNaughton: And you as well, sir. How are things there in Berkeley for you?
Shaun Carver: Despite the environment things are still going well. We’ve got a full house here. I think the campus has recruited more international students than they’ve ever had before, which is a good sign given the current environment. But as we’ll be discussing, there’s still a lot of issues floating around that are impacting us or may impact us in the future. So lots to talk about.
Drumm McNaughton: We do have a lot to talk about. You were on the podcast, I want to say in April or May of 2024, almost two years ago, and just a little bit has changed.
Shaun Carver: Yes. Yes. Understatement of the year.
Drumm McNaughton: Yes, it’s kind of like the old Bob Uecker quote from, oh gosh, what’s the name of the movie? “Just a little bit outside”
Shaun Carver: Yes. Major League.
Drumm McNaughton: Major League. That’s it.
[00:02:34] Sean Career Journey
Drumm McNaughton: Before we get into it and talk about all the different changes, Sean, give us a little bit of your background if you would please.
Shaun Carver: I’ve been in international education for, I hate to date myself, but I think over 25 years. About half of that time, I spent in China overseeing international programs and supporting international students going to universities in the US and UK, Australia, and such. Currently I’m the Executive Director of the International House here at UC Berkeley, which is a hundred-year-old institution founded by John D Rockefeller Junior.
[00:03:07] iHouse Origins Mission
Shaun Carver: Started in 1924 in New York, and then 1930 in Berkeley, 1932 at University of Chicago, ’36 in Paris, and then in the ’52 in Tokyo and ’60 in India. And so we’re part of this legacy from the Rockefeller family about really improving intercultural understanding and making the world a more peaceful place.
So currently here in Berkeley, I’ve got about 600 residents, undergrads and grads, about 80 different nationalities within this house. And our whole goal is to meet interesting people, have interesting discussions, not always on things we agree about, but have a better understanding of each other and moving forward to find solutions together. And we’ve been doing that for a century.
[00:03:52] Life Inside iHouse
Drumm McNaughton: So what does iHouse actually do? You’re on three campuses, which you just said, but what does it actually do?
Shaun Carver: Yes. So, we are a residence here, essentially, I would say. We try not to say we’re a dorm. Essentially, we house, we have room and as I mentioned about 620 students. We only service the UC Berkeley community here. They live here.
[00:04:17] Dining And Dialogue
Shaun Carver: We have full dining facilities. And so people sit down at breakfast, lunch and dinner and quite literally break bread and have conversations.
We do a lot of programming around understanding different cultures, how to deal with conflict and, really how to, kind of a, a counter movement today, but to sit down across from people that you may have disagreements with, have a better understanding of each other, and finding ways to live together in peace with mutual respect.
And so that’s really what we do. Tokyo is a little bit of a different model as well as the India International Center, but we were all founded with this idea of improving international relations, international understanding, and making the world a more peaceful place.
Drumm McNaughton: Well, it sounds like a United Nations based at colleges and universities.
Shaun Carver: Well, we predate the United Nations. So, the iHouse in New York was founded in 1924. And as you may know the Rockefellers, bought the land for the United Nations in New York. And so it really is this philanthropy of the Rockefeller family over multiple, multiple generations about, creating spaces where the world can come together and work together on solutions, whether it’s United Nations or, the original concept, the idea here at international House.
Drumm McNaughton: That sounds like something that we truly need more of. And it’s nice you’re doing it at that level. students coming to college, not only undergraduate, but graduate as well, because these are going to be the future leaders of these countries.
Shaun Carver: Yes, particularly, when you look at the alumni at UC Berkeley, iHouse at UC Berkeley, we have 12 Nobel Laureates as alumni. If you look at iHouse at University of Chicago, they have 25 Nobel Laureates. If you look at where our alumni have gone off over the years, they’ve been major figures in the United Nations, in business, in diplomacy, in law, in civil rights movements, free speech movements.
I mean, when you talk about, these incredible alumni at these universities, you’re right, they go off and they do incredible things. And we hope that, a part of, a part of their motivation and commitment is things that they learned and experienced here at iHouse.
Drumm McNaughton: What is a typical day for a student there at iHouse? they get up, they go to classes. What’s it look like?
Shaun Carver: Yes, well, although we’re adjacent to campus, on campus property, this building is self-sufficient. So, they would wake up, they’d probably go down into our dining hall and have breakfast sitting down with folks from around the world and probably with different majors or different areas of study and have conversations that, their day job is across the street on campus and that keeps them pretty busy. So they’re doing their classwork and studying during the day.
I
[00:07:04] Coffee Hour Traditions
Shaun Carver: n the evenings, every Wednesday night we do a coffee hour, which a group of students will sponsor and highlight their culture, their country. And so last night happened to be the Ireland, coffee hour. And so we had our Irish students coming and playing music and bringing food and doing trivia about their history and their culture. Our dining hall does, we’ll do a full Irish menu upstairs so that people can experience the food. So we really try to tie everything into, a full immersion into Irish history and culture, and that happens every Wednesday. It’s really interesting. I always learn something new when I go to these things and it’s, it is probably one of the most popular things.
[00:07:43] Events Speakers Culture
Shaun Carver: We also run, we have an auditorium here that seats about 400 and a big stage. So if we’re not doing a resident concert or ballroom dancing or folk dancing or a student choir, then we’ll have a speaker here, talking about important issues of our time, whether it’s cultural, political, and so forth.
So it really is an amazing place and we’ve been, like I said, we’ve been doing this for a hundred years and we think our work is more important today than at any time in our history.
[00:08:09] Trump Era Policy Shock
Drumm McNaughton: I would have to agree, especially, the impact of what many folks call Trump 2.0. The changes, the travel bans, things like that. What’s been the impact that you have seen to iHouse and to Berkeley in general?
Shaun Carver: Yes, I mean I think we got a taste of this back in the first administration. certainly wasn’t to the level that it is now. This kind of rethinking globalization, rethinking the impact of international students on our community, our classrooms, our communities, and in our economies.
But that’s, , certainly seems to be something that’s been a shift, an appreciation of what international students have done to support us.
[00:08:56] Value of Global Voices
Shaun Carver: having international students in a classroom when you’re talking about important global topics and getting perspectives from Africa, Central America, Asia, Europe.
the diversity of thought is important for us to have in these academic settings. And banning 75 different countries from being part of those conversations does not help the United States and help our students understand the world better. I think, being here in the Bay Area, I think it’s something like 50% of the founders of Silicon Valley came over on a student visa and so, they’re not just coming here and taking seats from American students.
But they’re coming here and creating jobs and creating technologies that benefit us all and pay taxes and really has been an incredible benefit. I
[00:09:43] Immigration and Innovation
Shaun Carver: mean, I, looking in the history and getting on my soapbox here, but looking at the history of the United States, we’ve always invited the world’s best and brightest to come here and create a life. And we’ve benefited from that. And, I would say the current tenor of the United States is not that vision anymore.
Drumm McNaughton: face it, we are a country of immigrants. The native population here, call them indigenous, Native Americans, whatever, they have been marginalized in many respects, and it is those folks who came over from Europe and other countries who have actually grown this country. We don’t need to get into a whole bunch of that. It’ll probably get me in a lot of trouble maybe too.
[00:10:28] Top Schools Vs Others
Drumm McNaughton: But institutions, to me, what I’m seeing is top line institutions like Berkeley, like MIT, others like that are not impacted as greatly as your tier two or your tier three institutions with respect to the visas. Does that, is that a fair statement?
Shaun Carver: 100%. as I mentioned kind of earlier in my little intro there, UC Berkeley has, this past fall has more students than we’ve ever had and more international students than we’ve ever had. And that might be surprising to hear from a lot of people when you consider the overall trend of is a reduction of international students in the United States.
I think you have to keep in the perspective that it doesn’t impact all of the universities equally. If you’re in Asia and you’ve got an acceptance to UC Berkeley, the number one public institution in the world, and I think I’m required to say that every time I, mention Berkeley.
Drumm McNaughton: It’s true though.
Shaun Carver: if you were able to get into UC Berkeley, it is a life changing opportunity for you and your family. And to be honest, the area could be on fire and they’re still going to come. Because it isa once in a lifetime opportunity. You have to take advantage of it and you have to look past all of these other things that may not, it may be rough, it may not be welcoming, but I can’t say no.
[00:11:52] Regional Schools at Risk
Shaun Carver: if you look at how have we labeled them? Tier two, tier three, smaller regional universities or non-research institutions. If you have an acceptance to bear and the United States does not feel like a welcoming place for you, you probably have options in Australia, in Canada, in the UK that are equivalent and maybe feel a little bit more welcoming. And I think it’s much easier to make that switch. And it would be to say, I’ve gotten into Berkeley. I can’t say no. Right? I just can’t say no, it’s going to, it’s going to put me on a trajectory that other places can’t do.
I think top universities, the brand names that we all know and people around the world know, and they aspire to go to these institutions, are always going to probably be okay. But it really impacts heavily these tier twos and tier threes. Especially privates that aren’t funded by the state and have kind of crutched their budgets up with international tuitions. These are tough times for those folks, and I’m sure plenty of your listeners are in those situations now.
Drumm McNaughton: Yes. Yes, they certainly are. I remember doing a project over at King Saud University many years ago, and we did some, part of it, we did some training classes, and there were, we did two separate classes. There were 30 people in each class. Every single one of them had a PhD from a US university.
Every single person. And they weren’t all Berkeley’s or Chicago or, there were many of the regional institutions. Thinking about that and thinking about the visa situation that we’re in and, countries being barred. Nigeria is one of the biggest ones that’s barred right now. They’re number 10 in sending international students over to the US.
[00:13:44] How Colleges Adapt
Drumm McNaughton: So after my diatribe there, what are institutions doing? I would guess that we had the disruption, COVID, and higher ed traditionally has not been open to a lot of changes. COVID forced that. And I think probably the Trump administration T2 is doing the same thing.
What are institutions doing to keep their international enrollment up?
Shaun Carver: Yes. as I mentioned, I’ve kind of been in higher ed for about 25 years and I’ve been in, public and private as well as institutions in the US and in Asia and, kind of have this different perspective of higher ed. prior to my higher ed career, I was a little bit more entrepreneurial and business-minded in my younger days.
I never, when I came in as a businessperson, as an entrepreneur person coming into higher ed, I was like, “Wow, there’s hardly any innovation in these universities. They’re so slow, mute, moving and bureaucratic,” and when you look at how we deliver our programs, a person standing in front of a group of students or disciples, pontificating up on a stage while everyone listens. that goes back to, Socrates, many, many, many years ago. And we are still delivering education the exact same way that they were. We’re just in a classroom, not under a tree or, in an—
Drumm McNaughton: We, we actually have construction and building nowadays. Is that what you’re saying?
Shaun Carver: Yes. and so these were not, I mean obviously it’s not every institution, but generalizing across the industry, it just has not been a place of a lot of innovation. And it was slow moving, I would say inconsistent.
[00:15:30] COVID Forced Innovation
Shaun Carver: But when COVID hit, it really, sent shocks through these organizations. They had to react quickly. It was an existential time. If you don’t come up with some solutions and some changes quickly, then this university may fail. So quickly you saw, things that would have to take years to get through Faculty Senate were getting approved in a weekend, you know.
I remember in a previous institution talking to faculty about we need to move some of these classes online because that’s where it’s going. And having a faculty say, you know what our value proposition is, me in person with these in front of these students and in a classroom with me teaching them and that can’t be replicated online. COVID hits and pretty soon everyone changes their mind and creates these online programs.
Zoom is now everywhere and we’re running these classes online. So, obviously COVID was a horrific event for everybody and tragic. But in some ways, I felt it really forced the universities to say, “Hey, we need to be more reactive. We need to be quicker; we need to be more agile. And we need to rethink some of these sacred cows that we’ve had in the past”. And in some ways, I felt that’s prepared these universities much better today to deal with things like the changes in the administration that are coming fast and furious. Universities reacting really quickly now.
Drumm McNaughton: Yes. And we’re seeing some of these things changes in the delivery.
[00:16:58] Taking Campuses Abroad
Drumm McNaughton: You had mentioned that Harvard partnered with the University of Toronto to deliver some of its degrees up there using their own faculty. UK, they’re doing more overseas partnerships than they used to. It’s part of their overall country strategy.
Would you talk to those please?
Shaun Carver: Yes, I think it really , depends on the institution strategy, right? if you look at a school like UC Berkeley, there’s not a lot of campuses around the world, right, or teaching centers around the world. But if you look at someone like NYU that has, a location in China, it has a location in Abu Dhabi, you know that there have these campuses, and they have really a kind of more global vision.
I think, coming out of the current environment where campuses are assessing the risk and they’re saying, well, one of the things we’ve always taken for granted is that international students can get into the country. And now maybe that’s a risk, maybe that’s something that we can’t take for granted.
And, there’s 75 countries that can’t get a visa to come in. How do we deliver our product, our education, our values to those folks when they can’t get into the country. And I think a lot of people are starting to look at now other delivery models where instead of bringing the world to Berkeley or bringing the world to New York or bringing the world to Wisconsin, maybe we need to take Wisconsin and Berkeley to the world.
And if you look at, this fits in the strategy with all these countries that we’ve been brain draining for decades. We’ve been bringing their best and brightest in the United States, keeping them here and having them contribute to our economy. These countries that have been suffering for that and now say, “Hey, maybe we can bring more of these students in-house and bring the international campuses to, to Delhi, to, to Riyadh, to Education City in Qatar, to Abu Dhabi, to Dubai, to, to Singapore.”
I think these countries are really thinking about this is an important strategy, to reverse the brain drain, that’s really, been to the US’s benefit, but not to theirs.
Drumm McNaughton: We’re seeing a lot of that in your major R1 universities. You mentioned New York University, multiple places. And there’s others who have done it as well. I think I would say New York University is probably the poster child for this with more campuses, Hong Kong, Singapore, et cetera.
[00:19:23] Options for Smaller Schools
Drumm McNaughton: But what can these second and third tier universities do?
the impact of the visas and the travel ban, we are seeing less students coming over here and, it’s different from undergraduate to graduate. Talk to what these folks can do.
Shaun Carver: Yes, I think as I’m starting to look at places where countries or regions or cities are trying to create a place to bring multiple international campuses to their areas, I am seeing a lot more of the tier two and tier three schools participating in that. I think part of that is, this has now become a national strategy to bring schools and bring education to their region. And so there’s probably a lot more funding available.
These are not inexpensive ventures. If you’re a university and you want to set up a campus, you need a lot of money and a lot of commitment to do that. And, ultimately these things have to pencil out as a profitable business. Although that’s not our always our primary driver, it is the reality of what we do is we’ve got to, pay the bills and pay the faculty and fund the research and the teaching. So, I think that there’s more funding available for these tier twos and tier threes that wasn’t necessarily available in a previous administration. But I think, people are reading seeing the current situation and say, this is an opportunity for us to really start keeping folks in house and bringing that global education here. And so Yes, it’s in a unique time.
A part of me as an American and as a California taxpayer and someone who’s in this industry and believes in international education, I’ve seen and appreciate what international students bring to the United States. Like I said, to the classroom, to the communities and to our economies and I hope we don’t put ourselves in a situation where that’s no longer the case. Where people find other countries more welcoming and more appreciative of the benefits that they bring.
Drumm McNaughton: Oh, absolutely.
[00:21:29] Undergrad Vs Grad Decisions
Drumm McNaughton: What I’m seeing is it’s impacting the graduate student population less than it is, in fact the undergraduate. What are you seeing?
Shaun Carver: I would agree with that. Being involved in both undergrad and grad throughout my career, especially on international, the primary decision makers for undergraduate students, considering they’re 17, 18, maybe 19 years old when they’re making these decisions, the primary decision maker is the parent. And especially, my time in Asia when where the student is going to study was decided by the parent and I, as a parent myself of two young kids, the idea of, if I was reading the paper and my daughter had an opportunity to go study, in Minnesota right now, I would be concerned about sending my young daughter to Minnesota to go study it.
It just doesn’t feel like a safe and welcoming place to send her. And especially if I was halfway around the world and couldn’t be there with her. It would impact my decision on where I want to send my son or daughter. So I think, parents are making rational decisions and when they see the US right now and they hear the rhetoric, and they see the policies and they’re watching the news. There’s probably plenty of places where I say, gosh, I wish I could, but I just don’t feel comfortable doing that. Maybe I’ll send them somewhere else.
And so it definitely, the current situation I think definitely impacts undergraduates more than the graduate students are generally adults. And they’ve been abroad, and they’ve done their undergraduate degree. They’re the ones who are making the primary decision. Their motivations are generally, the program, the ranking, the prospects of a job afterwards, the research facilities that are there, the faculty that are there. And if I have to live in a place that’s has a lot of conflict, they’re generally ranked that lower on their priorities than maybe an undergraduate parent.
Drumm McNaughton: So what I’m hearing you say is, it’s not only the visa situation and the travel bans, but it’s also what’s going on here in the US that’s affecting international enrollment.
Shaun Carver: Yes, ultimately when you’re making a decision, you got to look at what’s my life going to be like when I’m living there and doing that. They watch the news too, right? whenever I travel around the world and I turn on the TV in the hotel, it’s CNN. So I’m seeing what’s happening in the US and that perception of anti-immigration, anti-international students, of violence and conflict, and how does that not impact people’s decisions to study, people’s decisions to travel? it’s impacting a lot of things in our ecosystem here. So, certainly, we hope that things will, become a little bit more peaceful and stable.
Drumm McNaughton: Oh, no doubt that they will.
[00:24:20] Final Takeaways and Farewell
Drumm McNaughton: So as we’re drawing to a close in this, and it’s been fascinating getting back to, to chat with you again. It feels like old home week for me. What can institutions do to lessen this impact?
Shaun Carver: I think educational programs and rankings and all of the things that make these universities great are important to go out there with your brand. But I think addressing things like student wellbeing, student safety, advocating for students, advocating on behalf of international students, out there preaching the value and importance of diversity in a classroom that, the current narrative is, this creates conflict and violence.
I’ve been doing this for a hundred years. I have no violence or conflict, and I have the most diverse community, whether you just look at countries or religions and genders, there’s politics and there’s so many ways that we’re different in this house and we live together in peace and harmony and listen to each other and try to understand each other.
We don’t cancel anybody. We don’t always agree with everybody, but we certainly deal with it in civil ways. And I think that’s the environment, campuses can lead on, is saying these are not places for people to come and shout each other down and to have violence. These are places where we come together in an academic center, act civilly, and try to understand each other better. And be more forward with that, that everybody is welcome to these universities and everybody’s viewpoint is valuable. as soon as the university takes a stand on an issue, you got to think you’re alienating, a lot of people around the world because of your stance on that.
And so maybe the advice for universities is not always to be forward of taking a position in conflict, but being a place where people come together to better understand the conflict. Respect everyone’s opinions and views and try to move forward in, in ways that we can live together in, in harmony.
Drumm McNaughton: That, that’s very well said, Sean. And it brought up an interesting point with me, is not only are you teaching people civil discourse, but you’re teaching them critical thinking and many other key skills that they need in the workforce. Just because someone says something that you don’t like, and I guess what comes to mind, I’m a movie buff. I really enjoy them. And the movie, The American President, Michael Douglas gives this talk at the end, just because you don’t like what somebody else is saying and to it sets you off in every fiber of your being, doesn’t mean that you can’t listen to them and learn from them at the same time.
And that’s what I see you doing. One of the key benefits there at iHouse.
Shaun Carver: One of the legendary figures in the University of California, and especially here at Berkeley Clark Kerr, I think one of the comments he said was, it’s not the university’s role to protect students from ideas. It’s to create an environment where students can be exposed to different ideas and you’re exactly right. Critical thinking. And I think one of the challenges we have, especially with this current generation, is that they’ve been raised and programmed by social media to not be exposed to differences of opinions, to not spend time learning and trying to understand perspectives and history and culture and all the things that led to someone having a particular take.
It’s a quick tweet. I disagree with you. I’m canceling you. I’m, you’re my enemy. And the reality is, , the world today is much more subtle than that. It’s not a binary world. It’s not a black and white. It’s a very much a shades of gray. And people that think someone is their enemy or that they have a viewpoint that is totally contrary, I think they’ll find there’s probably 90% of the other issues that they agree on.
So if we can kind of deprogram what we’ve done to this generation with social media, I think we have a much better chance of having deeper understanding and seeing the world in a much better light than we do right now.
Drumm McNaughton: There was something that I learned years ago, until you’ve walked a mile in my moccasins, you don’t know me.
Shaun Carver: Yes.
Drumm McNaughton: And we’ve got to be able to do that very thing, understand where people are coming from. That is one of the benefits of education and clearly one of the benefits of iHouse.
Shaun Carver: Yes, and I really think that’s some of our special sauce here is that there’s no dominant culture here with 600 people and 80 different nationalities. By nationality, the biggest group is about 18%, which is the domestic American students that are here. Every other community is less than 10%, and so there is no dominant culture.
Everybody is surrounded by different people and if we don’t stop and listen and try to understand, the wheels would fall off. But no one is in a dominant position here, and therefore they’re forced to kind of think and learn and listen and understand, and that’s what makes this place work so well.
Today’s society and social media just does not encourage that level of, depth in, in our interactions. It’s a tweet.
Drumm McNaughton: Very true, very true.
Shaun Carver: But I’m optimistic. We’ve been doing this for a hundred years and we’re going to keep doing it for another a hundred years. And we’re going to move the needle and change the world.
Drumm McNaughton: If anybody can do it, UC Berkeley can.
Shaun Carver: Thank you so much. I appreciate the confidence.
[00:29:40] Three Takeaways for University Presidents and Boards
Drumm McNaughton: Sean? Three takeaways for university presidents and boards.
Shaun Carver: I think we talked a little bit about that. I think, well universities, certainly, as institutions, may have a slant of a view, the importance of maintaining a neutrality and creating environment that all students and all faculty are welcome, all viewpoints are welcome in the classroom. And there’s a lot of value in having exposure to differences of opinions, especially ones you adamantly disagree with.
In talking to a university president, the need to move universities back to the center. Not saying aligning with any administration but just being seen as a more of a neutral place than having a specific stance. I have some private schools are probably different. Jesuit schools certainly have a mission and to focus on their values. But as a general, as a general takeaway, I would suggest, boards really, presidents and boards really think about how to be welcoming to all viewpoints and making everyone welcome in the classroom.
Drumm McNaughton: Great.
Second point, Sean.
Shaun Carver: Advocate for international students before they get here. They’re not voters, they’re not contributing to campaigns, there’s not a lot of folks that stand up on behalf of the value of international students, and that’s what I think universities are in a special place to be able to do that.
Drumm McNaughton: Very important.
Shaun Carver: Talk about their contributions and talk about their contributions to the economy. Talk about how many Nobel Prize winners have come from the universities that were international students.
All of these things benefit our country and our society.
Drumm McNaughton: Great. And third point, around what smaller schools can do to help with the international recruitment.
Shaun Carver: I think in some ways, when they see conflict in certain parts of the country, I always think about some of our friends in schools in the Midwest or in areas where these are small university towns, college towns that have a high degree of safety and a great quality of life. I think pitching that and presenting that as a safe haven in some ways, could be beneficial in recruiting and attracting international students who are maybe trying to avoid some of these hot pockets around the world.
Drumm McNaughton: Great takeaways. Thanks Sean. What’s next for you?
Shaun Carver: We just started off the next term. So it’s finishing up, term two here at Berkeley, and starting to look at recruiting for next year. As I mentioned, there’s seven international houses, Rockefeller International Houses. So, I’m fortunate enough to be the president of the iHouse Association.
So we’re bringing these seven iHouse back together and collaborating more on programming, on building community and doing work that lets the world know why we exist and what we’re doing and gaining support. So it’s important work and things that can help, I think, pull the pendulum back into a place where we feel more comfortable with it.
Drumm McNaughton: Well, I certainly hope that is working. iHouse is very fortunate to have you there in Berkeley and as part of the overall. You guys do great work and thank you so much for being on the program again. I appreciate it. It’s great to see you.
Shaun Carver: Yes, great to see you. I look forward to meeting up again two years and seeing how are these predictions played out?
Drumm McNaughton: Sounds good to me, my friend.
Shaun Carver: Alright, take care.
Drumm McNaughton: You too.
Thanks for listening and a special thank you to my guest, Dr. Sean Carver, executive director of UC Berkeley’s International House. Sean, thanks for being on the program. It’s always great to have a good conversation with you, and I look forward to the next time we get together for my listeners, thanks again for tuning in.
See you next week.
