Enroll and Retain International Students: Lessons from I-House at UC Berkeley:

Changing Higher Ed podcast 222 with host Dr. Drumm McNaughton and guest Dr. Shaun Carver

Transcript: Changing Higher Ed Podcast 222

Drumm McNaughton: Thank you, David. Today we continue with our two part series on international students, and welcome Dr. Shaun Carver, Executive Director of UC Berkeley’s International House. A dual citizen of the UK and the U. S. himself, Shaun previously was the Executive Director of the Hult International Business School, where he oversaw 750 students representing 82 countries.

With international students in this country rising at the fastest rate in 40 plus years, it’s more important than ever to make them feel welcome on college campuses, especially since international students are a key part of our economy. Last year they created over 55,000 jobs in California.

Shaun joins me today to talk about how higher education institutions can foster intercultural respect and understanding and create a more comfortable environment for international students that helps their enrollment and retention.

 Shaun, welcome to the show.

Shaun Carver: Thank you, Drumm. Pleasure to be here.

Drumm McNaughton: Ah, it’s my pleasure to have you here. You are quite the expert when it comes to international students. One of the things that is becoming more and more critical as we hit the demographic cliff and we have far less traditional age students ready for college or going to college.

So if you wouldn’t mind, give our listeners a little bit of a background on how you got to be the head of international house there at UC Berkeley.

Shaun Carver: Yeah. Well, thank you for the opportunity. My background, my mom is British and my dad is American. And so although most people would see those are very similar cultures, growing up in that household, there were definitely some distinct differences and at an early age became aware of, of things are done differently elsewhere.

We moved around a lot when I was growing up, including living overseas, and I think it just instilled me with a sense of seeing that there’s different people out there and that the way I see things isn’t the way that other people see things. And so I had,

Drumm McNaughton: You’re kidding. You’re kidding.

Shaun Carver: Yeah, I’ve had that.

Yeah, I’ve it’s hard to believe. Not everyone agrees with me, but, it’s a big, beautiful world with a lot of different views and opinions and it’s really wonderful when you get to get out and experience those things.

I got into my higher ed world as almost a second career. After I finished my MBA I was given a opportunity to go teach in Beijing in a dual degree program. And this was working with Chinese learners that were in this Chinese system doing an undergraduate degree as well as a U. S. degree program doing a typical undergrad degree that we would see here.

Then I become really aware of different styles of learning, the different views on education, and being an expat in a foreign country really gave me that experience of what a lot of our international students feel when they come here to the U. S. So I ended up, that one year contract turned into 13 years in China, all in higher education and in international dual degree programs or joint university programs and things like that.

I got into, an executive director position and dean at, Hult International Business School at the Shanghai campus. And there we enrolled, in the MBA program, I think there was about 100 in all the degree programs, probably close to 250 students, all non Chinese. So we had about 75 different nationalities all living in Shanghai doing a international degree program, which was fascinating and seeing how all of these people from around the world could come together, and see the magic that kind of happens from that. You could see really strong relationships form with these folks who, who still stay together today.

After my period at Hult I went to UC San Diego where I was, an assistant dean of their graduate programs, and again, dealing with some of those programs are, 80, 90 percent international students when you look at master’s of finance or accounting programs.

And then the opportunity came to, to move up to International House, which brought all of this together. What we do here at International House is we are a living and learning, facility. We bring about 620 scholars, undergrads, postgrads, Ph. D. students visiting faculty, from the U. S. and internationally, to come live and work and study together. And so we have about 80 different nationalities in that group of 600. We have diversity in any way that you measure diversity, whether it’s the color of your passport, economic diversity, so we do about a million dollars of scholarships to help, get economic diversity in the house. We do admissions across different degree programs to make sure there’s a diversity in academic area and study. So we try to create this really complicated house, and the magic that happens within this community is really special. And that’s how I got here.

Drumm McNaughton: Yeah. Well, I understand that international perspective. When you and I spoke the other day, I don’t think I mentioned it, but I have actually lived outside the country for 18, 19 years. I grew up down in Panama and then lived in Europe and the Far East, and I’ve traveled extensively, so I jokingly tell people I look American, but I’m not.

Shaun Carver: It really changes your perspective when you get outside the U S and look from the outside in, and you’re surrounded by people who are asking questions because they’re not from this country. They don’t understand how some of these things work. And so it’s really changes your perspective. It certainly did so for me. And although International House, we have about 20 percent are domestic students, and a lot of ways the exposure they get here at I-House is something they don’t get, there’s a lot of, I think we assume everyone travels, but it’s not the case.

A lot of Americans, especially in this age, don’t even own a passport, so getting them in an environment where they can meet people from around the world and have conversations and make friendships with people that have completely different perspectives, different cultures, different understandings of value systems and things, it’s just as beneficial to our domestic students as it is to our international students.

Drumm McNaughton: Absolutely. And that old saying, until you’ve walked a mile and somebody else’s moccasins, you don’t really understand them. What you’re doing is you’re providing these domestic students and the international students this cross cultural pollination, which is so critical in today’s world.

Shaun Carver: Like you had mentioned, your time in, in Panama, when you’re an expat, when you get off the plane and you’re in another country that speaks a different language and does things differently, it really gives you the experience of our international students when they come here.

And little things, I remember going to China and the first thing was like, well, how do I get a cell phone and how do I get a phone number and how do I get connected to the internet? How do I get a bank account and an ATM card? Like, I needed someone to hand hold me throughout that whole process, especially with limited language ability. Our international students come with a certain level of English that’s much better than my Chinese ever was. But it’s still a challenge. That experience, probably you had it and I did as well, it makes you a little bit more empathized with international students and the support they need when they get here.

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, absolutely. Because as you and I know, these international students face significant challenges, and they need special levels of support that, well, we’re starting to see that with more first gen students and low SES students coming into colleges and universities, but the international students take it a whole other level because they’re not acculturized into the U.S. way of doing things.

Shaun Carver: Yeah, and what is the U.S. way of doing things nowadays? There’s so many things in our world or in our society are, open for debate and discussion,

Drumm McNaughton: yeah, good point.

Shaun Carver: And I think that’s, you talked about the support for international students. I think it starts before they even apply. These international students, this is a huge commitment, not just financially, but also to, come out of a support system, a culture where you feel comfortable with. And to come halfway around the world to land at our universities. This is a major decision for them that they spend years preparing for, not just academically, but linguistically and taking all the tests, and getting the money prepared to come over, getting the visa, all of that. It’s a major ordeal and they do a lot of research because of that big investment that they’re making, and it’s important that our universities are seen as welcoming places, something I think has probably been damaged over the last 12, 18 months. If you’re an outsider in a different country looking at U. S. universities right now, not all of them probably come across as welcoming to international students, especially those that may have a different opinion of some of the voices that have been on campuses lately.

Drumm McNaughton: And without getting into the politics too much, our son for many years has gone overseas to teach English as a second language and his last gig was over in Taiwan and there was a student over there who was preparing to come to the U. S. with his family and he would be going to high school and the language school skills were really impressive, but the culture aspects were a little challenging. And this is some of the things that you’ve had to deal with at International House.

Shaun Carver: Yeah, I think that was part of my experience and something that opened my eyes when I was in China is, we would have these dual degree programs, they’d be going into a Chinese university classroom, which was a lot more rote learning, it’s memorization, recitation, learning environment. And then we were trying to bring in a U. S. teaching environment where it’s critical thinking, class participation, there’s no right answer. Have a point of view and be able to defend it, and for folks coming out of a different educational background, those skills don’t come naturally.

And so it was really interesting for me to see that this perception we have of, “oh, Asian students sit in the back, they’re quiet, they don’t talk”. It’s not that they’re bad students, it’s just that’s how you become a successful student in their culture.

A big part of what we were trying to do, and I had actually started a school when I was over in China that we ran for about seven years that were preparing Chinese students to adapt to Western US, UK, Canada, Australia, teaching environments, which is getting more into critical thinking, not looking for what the right answer is, but reading and forming your own opinion. And, that’s a lot of stuff that people take for granted. When we enroll international students, we just think they’re all the same, bring them in and they’ll be fine, but there’s a lot of challenges culturally that they face coming into these classroom environments.

The Origins of International House

Drumm McNaughton: So tell us a little bit about International House. What’s the background, what makes it unique?

Shaun Carver: a whole International House movement started in 1908. A man who just graduated from university was working at the YMCA that was affiliated with Columbia University at the time. And as a mid 20 some old, walking down the steps of the Columbia library, one fall morning he passed a student and in passing just said good morning and the student stopped and gave him a look and sparked a conversation and the student said, ” I’ve been in New York for three weeks and you’re the first person to talk to me”. And that interaction really touched Harry when he went home and talked to his wife, Florence Edmonds. This is 1908. Coming from China to New York was not just a, a 16 hour flight into JFK and you’re good to go. This was probably a very long boat ride, train ride. This was an ordeal just to get to New York, plus the isolation of being pushed out into housing that was not in the best areas and not being accepted by society, not even recognized as you’re walking down the street. What a challenging situation for a lot of these international scholars and, shame on us for not being better hosts and taking advantage of learning about all these different cultures. So Harry and Florence decided to invite international students into their apartment, modest apartment, for what they called Sunday suppers, and they would sit around the table. They would break bread and have a meal and learn about each other’s cultures. They’d have these, interesting conversations about art or history or food, music, politics with folks from around the world. And this community started to develop, out of the Edmonds apartment that eventually John D. Rockefeller Jr. and the Cleveland Dodge family got behind, and they built the first International House which exists today, adjacent to Columbia University. It was such a success that, a couple of years later in 1930, they came here to Berkeley and opened up I-House, Berkeley, which is what I run here.

Shortly after there’s an I-House at University of Chicago, and then the depression hit. So the Rockefeller houses ended after those first three. But that’s what we do, we bring international and domestic students together, under this idea that listening and learning and understanding different people, different perspectives is the way to solve problems and to make the world a more peaceful place, and we’ve been doing that since 1930.

Overcoming Challenges Starts with the Enrollment Process

Drumm McNaughton: Wow. Well, there’s many challenges that institutions have to overcome when they start enrolling large numbers of international students. I-House is one solution, but you mentioned earlier in the conversation, it really starts with the enrollment process. Could you take us through some of those challenges and how to deal with them?

Shaun Carver: Yeah, I think first, I have to acknowledge that a lot of universities are increasing international students because they pay some two or three times more than a domestic student would. And as state governments are cutting budgets of state universities or there’s pressures on private universities that increasing enrollment of international students is a way to help the bottom line.

I think the challenge is that, there’s a responsibility to provide services and support for international students. It’s not just bring a man and get this additional surplus of revenue. But using that revenue to support housing, which is always a big issue for international students, and most universities don’t have enough housing for their undergrads, to start with, let alone ones that are specifically for international students.

Drumm McNaughton: This kind of strikes me a little bit about how the quote, “traditional demographic”, high school graduates, et cetera, is changing and they’re going to more first generation students, low SES. There needs to be supports there. Is it similar or is the international students that much more challenging because of the language barriers?

Shaun Carver: I think when you look at the diversity of what makes it what a college student is, whether they’re first gen or whether they’re international, there’s no blanket approach to solve all of these things. I think there’s a lot of things that are in common with, first gen or transfer students versus international students, which is they’re, a lot of times, coming into a university that they don’t have the knowledge of how universities work and how to be successful and where the pitfalls, they’re not comfortable always going towards the resources that are available on campus. And the culture in the community has to be welcoming of folks who are uncomfortable or need more support and that’s not always the case, too. When you look at international students in particular, they have a lot of similarities with first gen or transfer students, which is they’re not traditional in the U. S. sense. And they face challenges and need more support to have successful outcomes.

Drumm McNaughton: I think what gets me is I’ve heard so many faculty at various institutions say, “the student need to come up to our level”. And to some degree, they’re right, but in other areas they don’t have the same background, the same structure, that a quote traditional student does.

Now I am guessing from an academic perspective, international students may be better prepared. Is that a fair statement or am I completely out to lunch? Well, don’t say that. Don’t say that.

Shaun Carver: First, I would say any faculty that says, these students have to come up to our standard, would challenge them to define what they mean by their standard. These students who get into their classroom meet all of the entry requirements. In some cases for international students, the requirements are higher than for a domestic student.

So, what is the standard that you’re asking, because you let these students in? You need to talk to your admissions program and figure out , if these students aren’t meeting your standard, define it and make sure that you’re recruiting students in , that meet those standards, otherwise you’re setting them up for failure.

Getting to your point, I think, in a lot of ways, international students do have a lot more challenges than domestic students. Just look at the admissions process. I can’t, as my children are fairly young, probably five years before we need to start doing university applications and I’m on the business side of it as well. So, It’s complicated, it’s, there’s a lot of subtleties and what it takes to get in, understanding the different cultures of universities. International students, like a lot of the domestic students, they know the brand names, they know difference between, they know Stanford and Cal, but they can’t tell you the cultural difference of those campuses. The difference between a private Ivy or a public university. They know the names, they’ll list out the 20 aspirational universities they want to apply to, but they don’t always understand, like, is this a good fit for me? They need to look beyond the name of the university and look at the strength of the program you’re applying to.

All those things are challenging for domestic students. Now, imagine if it was in a foreign language and how would you navigate that? I always think if I was applying to a university in China or Germany or a place where I didn’t really speak the language, how would I get information about those universities and these things that we’re talking about? How difficult would the application process be if it was only in German or Chinese? So there’s a lot more challenges that international students go through and we’re not even touching on the financial aspect of it.

Again, like in some universities that I’m fairly familiar with, they’re paying extra $30, 000 a year above and beyond what a domestic student pays, and they’re coming from countries that are not always developed, with high GDPs, and folks with the means to pay a hundred thousand dollars a year to go to a university. I’ve got students here who, they come from countries where a doctor makes a dollar a day and so, they, once they get here their whole life is at IHouse. We feed them, we give them great meals, we give them as much programming and entertainment and social life that they can get without asking them to pay for any of that stuff. It’s all included in our room and board fees.

Drumm McNaughton: So how do you create this diverse environment that’s supportive for your students?

Shaun Carver: Yeah, I think, because, we’ve been doing this for 100 years. So, it’s not like this is something new. When people apply to I-House and, you know, I-House, even though we’re at UC Berkeley, International House is an independent 501 C 3, we’re a nonprofit organization. We received no funding from the university, no support from the university, we operate independently. So we’ve been doing this for a long time and people apply here because they want to be part of this diverse community. They want to be exposed to different views. They want to be out of their comfort zone.

 When you look at how our demographics are made up, about 20 percent are domestic and there’s a lot of diversity within our domestic population. It’s not like all of the U S. students agree or have the same view of the world or necessarily the same culture. And then the next group we probably have China, which is about nine percent of the house so 50, 60 out of 600, followed by India, France, so, no matter where you’re at I-House, when you’re sitting down, it’s likely you’re surrounded by a lot of people who are not like you. And you have to listen to get along in this community you have to be comfortable with being around other people with different views. And you have to be curious to want to ask questions and learn about it.

Shaun Carver: Folks that come here because they just want a place to live that’s close to campus, that has great food and a place, a library that’s open 24 hours. They generally don’t do well here because this isn’t a good fit for them. If you don’t want to be surrounded by different people, if you don’t want to learn about the differences that we all have, if you don’t want to have conversations with people who have different views than you, then I-House isn’t a great, but we fortunately get people who want to be part of this and really benefit from this experience here.

I talked to alumni that around here in the, we say the “golden years”, which was right after World War II, when the world was trying to heal and come together. . And I talked to alumni that were here for one year in like 1947, and they talk passionately about that one year they had at I-House and the friends that they made that they still keep in touch with and the experience they had being two years out of fighting with Germans and Japanese and sitting at I-House at a table across from Germans and Japanese and being able to talk to them as peers and see them in a different way. That’s the power of this community, which is a lot of these preconceived ideas of other folks. When they’re part of your community and when you listen and learn and you don’t “other” them and fear them, but you want to understand and build relationships, it’s really powerful.

People remember this experience for many decades. And that’s special. There’s not a lot of places that are that impactful on your life that you’ll remember for 50, 60 years afterwards.

How Berkely’s International House Identifies the Best Candidates

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, no doubt. Now, what’s your special sauce? How is it that you’re able to do this? You’ve done it for over a hundred years. Are there specific things that you look for in admitting people to I-House? Are there certain processes that you put in place to make sure that people share their diverse views, etc?

Shaun Carver: Yeah, that’s an area I’m always interested in. When I did my doctorate, I did research and looked at our alumni and what were the things that they felt were most impactful. Right now we’re working with one of our alumni who’s a researcher, and trying to look at how do we identify people that fit this experience. But there’s the other side of it, which is, in some ways it’s the people who don’t know they need this, that need it the most. And the people that think, “Oh, I’m just going to go to the I-House”, and we get this every year. There’s always a percentage of people that get in, because if you look at your admissions, yes, we have essays and you have to write an essay and everything. I can tell you at Berkeley, these kids know how to write an essay. They know how to write an answer that you want to hear. And then you throw in chat GPT and then it’s just how reliable are those as predictors of, So, we’re really looking at how do we do admissions and how do we identify folks that will get the most out of this experience?

So it is a challenge, but as I mentioned, we get folks who come in not knowing much about I-House. They just know our location is directly across the street from campus and it’s on the top of the hill and it’s great view and beautiful old building, and that’s why they apply.

And then as we do our orientation and things, I do my whole history of I-House and our whole reason for being, and I get people coming up, say, “I had no idea, but this is great. And I’m really looking forward to this experience”. And that’s important for us to be successful is that people see that. Like I said, if you come in with a closed mind with blinders on and, intellectually arrogant to the point where, “I know what right is, and I don’t want to be talking to anyone who thinks otherwise”, and ” they’re all wrong, I’m right”. This is a tough environment to be in. But I think ultimately with universities, our role is to help expand people, to challenge people, to get them to see different perspectives, critical thinkers.

Drumm McNaughton: Yeah, so you’ve got an enrollment or really an admissions policy. You’ve got a process that people have to go through. How do you set up different structures at I-House to make sure that people come together? Or do you?

Shaun Carver: Yes, first just create so much diversity that there’s no dominant group. Like I said, our biggest group is domestic, that’s 20%. So any domestic student, there’s four other people from around the world for every one domestic person.

And then when we do admissions, we really try to create a very complicated house. Like I said, it’s not just, “oh, we have 75 different nationalities in the house this year.” It’s like, “we have 75 different nationalities. We have, 20 percent that are getting some sort of financial aid because they’re not the world’s richest kids. They’re the people who got in by merit and need support to be here and bring a unique perspective”.

We admit so that we don’t have a dominant area of study. It’s not all engineering students or business students or law students. If you’re the one student at Berkeley studying Sanskrit, I want you here in I-House. I want that perspective. I want your view of the world and I want you sharing that knowledge with people who are not get exposure to it any other time.

And so, we really try to create a lot of complications in our admissions process. And that just creates this environment where no one’s in a dominant position and so everyone’s a bit vulnerable, everyone’s a bit uncomfortable and everyone’s really curious and it creates this really great vibe.

We do things like, our undergrads have to share a room, double up in a room, but you can’t double up with someone who’s from your country, which creates a whole nother, it’s, it’s a lot easier to live with someone from your country than it is to live with someone from a different country that you’re not familiar with.

We’re not totally mean. It is a thoughtful, uncomfortable experience for a purpose, but if you want to do a room change, you can, but it’s only after two weeks. And usually, after the first two nights, someone’s in here, like, I got to change rooms, my roommate, I can’t live with it.

And then after two weeks, they settle down and they were like, “Oh, this is a really nice person”, and it works out. So, we create these environments that hopefully puts them out of their comfort zone a little bit and helps them grow.

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, I get that at the Naval Academy, obviously, we were assigned roommates and my two roommates, one was from Peru, the other was from Ecuador. They both spoke Spanish, but they couldn’t understand each other because they were different dialects.

Shaun Carver: Did you have to interpret? Did you have to be in the middle?

Drumm McNaughton: Oh, I did not even try they figured it out just like your roommates do.

Shaun Carver: Yeah. I think it’s natural. And when I went to China, I certainly did this, and so I do as I say, not as I do. But when I went to China, I immediately looked for expats, other Americans, and go find this bubble to isolate myself in and, as comforting and makes life easier. I don’t feel like I got as much out of my experience because of that decision , to not immerse myself in a different culture at a different language, which would have been, very challenging, but it would have changed my experience dramatically if I had done that.

And so, we try to create that here. Obviously, look, it’s stressful enough to be a Berkeley student and the work that you got to do just to get your degree. We don’t want to make life miserable, and we don’t, but we want them to feel challenged here and to step out of their comfort zone and feel good about that.

Generally, pretty quickly, they realize that it’s not that hard, and people are people and they’re really nice, even though they’re a different culture, but they’re my friend and they’re someone I have dinner with and these relationships as I’ve seen we last for decades.

Drumm McNaughton: Well they have a shared experience. They’re all going to Berkeley, and Berkeley being as challenging as it is, there is a common touch point. It’s no longer nationality. It’s you’re a student at an incredible university, and this will bring people together.

Shaun Carver: Yeah, I see these students, we call them residents because for I-House they’re our residents, but for the university they’re students. And I see, our residents as really having three different affiliations

They’re a Cal alumni. An alumni of the University of California and all the things that go along with that.

They’re alumni of the engineering school or, the environmental science school.

And they’re alumni of I-House. And what we see over time is that because the relationships we form here at IHouse are very emotional, it’s not transactional, which is, I paid a tuition, I did the work, you gave me a diploma. This is, “I made friendships that changed my life. I had experiences here that I still hold dear to my heart right now.” And so when we talk to our alumni, even though they’re Cal alumni or the law school or business school alumni, they hold on very strong to their affiliation with I-House.

This isn’t a dorm , how many people would donate money back to their dorm? Our alumni are a hundred thousand alumni of I-House Berkeley, which we have seven Nobel prize winners and heads of state and governors of California, heads of business, people who’ve leadership roles in the United Nations.

Our alumni is incredible. They give back to I-House because it’s not a dorm, this is about this experience that they have here, but then that’s the special sauce is it’s an emotional connection and it’s something that, what they have here they carry on and apply throughout their life.

And that’s a dream for us, as a mission based organization, we want to teach them that, this diversity and learning about different cultures and different perspectives and trying to find common solutions. That’s what we try to teach here. And then we hope they go out and change the world.

And fortunately, it seems to do very well,

Drumm McNaughton: Well, as I learned years ago, you change the world one person at a time, and that’s what you’re doing.

Shaun Carver: A hundred percent. We graduate about 600 a year and it’s a big world. So, I am always thinking, how do we graduate 6,000 or 60,000 a year that go off and have an impact. If we really want to change the world, it doesn’t happen 600 at a time, it happens with a big movement, and I hope, the iHouse movement continues to grow and spread out there in the world.

Three Takeaways For Higher Ed Presidents and Boards

Drumm McNaughton: Well, I’m sure it will. Shaun, this has been a fascinating conversation, thank you so much. As we typically do, our two final questions. Three takeaways for higher ed presidents and boards.

Shaun Carver: Yeah, difficult positions to be in right now. So, I’m sure a lot of people are looking for advice and, I think if I was to say three takeaways:

One, lead with your values and your culture, universities need to be confident and be intentional with what the values of the university is and what the culture within the universities are. Everyone should know what those principles are that you stand for, whether it’s faculty, or new students, or alumni, or donors and supporters and friends in the community. Everyone should know what the values and principles of the university are and what they stand for. I don’t think be apologetic about that.

I think second, be consistent with policies. I think if you start wavering on policies, then you can be seen as favoring one side versus another, which tends to feel too political and inconsistent. And I think inconsistency in policies leads to, a lack of institutional confidence. People don’t think you know what you’re doing if you’re flip flopping or have different standards for different groups. So I think be consistent.

And the last thing, I think most important, and certainly critical for us here at I-House is, giving people the freedom to express their beliefs. There’s a big difference between education and indoctrination, and I think in universities our role is to teach folks to listen, to learn, to question, to challenge ideas and to think critically. If our goal is to teach them to accept certain beliefs unconditionally, there’s no critical thinking. We’re indoctrinating kids and I don’t think that’s what our role as universities is.

Our role is to teach them to think critically and you can’t do that if you’re not willing to listen to folks who are different than you. If you’re not willing to listen, try to understand, not agree. That’s not the goal here is to get everyone to agree with each other. The challenge, the goal is to get everyone to listen to each other, try to understand each other and try to find ways to move forward that includes everybody. That’s a big challenge on campuses right now is that the culture in classrooms and out of classrooms is “not everyone feels comfortable to express their beliefs”, and higher ed is not about that.

We’re not the university teaching the flat earth, right? And everyone has to believe that the earth is flat. You got to have someone come in and say, “no, the world’s round. And here’s why I think the world’s round”. We need Aristotle in there and we need civility in those environments so that we don’t immediately listen to what someone says or look at them and say, I know what you’re thinking and I don’t believe in it and I want to shut you down and you shouldn’t be able to talk.

We need civility. Let’s just respect that other people have different views. Let’s have a conversation. Let’s try to understand and let’s move forward together.

Drumm McNaughton: That makes so much sense, especially when it comes to the globalization, which in many circles is a negative term, but it really has to do with you’re no more than an airplane flight away from all the rest of the countries on the globe. We need to understand them and work together.

What’s next for you? What’s next for I-House?

Looking Toward the Future of I-House at UC Berkeley

Shaun Carver: Currently, I’d like to see I-House have even a more prominent role on the UC Berkeley campus in bringing our communities together because the things we just discussed I think I-House can be a place that we have the power to convene. We’ve been doing this a lot longer than any of the issues we’re dealing with today. We’ve been here since 1930, and I-House is a movement started before World War One. We’ve been through global conflict and we’ve held steady with this idea of how we do things. And so I would like to see I-House be a little bit, more of a central player in UC Berkeley and how we bring different sites together and have conversations in civil ways and try to come together.

As I mentioned, there’s three other Rockefeller houses, out there. There’s other institutions that are I-House institutions, not part of the Rockefeller first houses, but follow the movement. And I’d like to see those, work more closely together and engage these passionate alumni. A hundred thousand alumni here that really are passionate about this experience, and I’d like to see them have more impact in the world and how they can support us in advancing our mission. So I think those are the three things, small things, just, go out and change the world. Small goals that we’re working on.

Drumm McNaughton: Those are great. Shaun thank you so much for taking time out of your busy day to be on this show. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Look forward to the next time we get a chance to chat.

Shaun Carver: I did too. Thank you so much for allowing me the opportunity and I look forward to chatting with you again.

Drumm McNaughton: Likewise.

Thanks for listening today and a special thank you to Dr. Shaun Carver, Executive Director of UC Berkeley’s International House, and for his sharing with me what makes I-House special and how it creates an environment that helps retain international students at our colleges and universities.

Thanks for listening. See you next time.